Sunday, January 02, 2005

Mentalblog reports: Rabbi Yehuda Shain resigns from Bdatz and the letter of resignation is simply shocking

12 Comments:

At 5:05 PM, Blogger jewishwhistleblower said...

see: http://www.mentalblog.com/2005/01/rabbi-yehuda-shain-resigns-from-bdatz.html

 
At 7:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

WOW!!!! This is truly, truly SHOCKING!!!!!

Here's a challenge, so that we could all find out how much stock we should put into Rabbi Shain's opinions and into how much stock we should put into the sincerity of the bloggers who are promoting him (Mental Blog, Shmarya, and Jewish Whistleblower) -- I'm making this dare because some people might think that you guys are just a bunch of sensationalists:

Are each of you willing to publicly commit to only eat the food items that Rabbi Shain approves of (not just staying away from Rubashkin's)? Are each of you willing to publicly commit to get rid of any reading material that Rabbi SHain does not approve of? How about to not visit any web sites that he does not approve of? What about music?

Kashrus is very important to the soul, as are all of the other above things: Not only what we eat, but what we see, where we go, and what we allow our ears to be exposed to.

I await your responses, because I would not want to think that you guys are a bunch of fakers.

 
At 8:09 AM, Blogger jewishwhistleblower said...

>Here's a challenge, so that we could all find out how
>much stock we should put into Rabbi Shain's opinions
>and into how much stock we should put into the sincerity
>of the bloggers who are promoting him (Mental Blog,
>Shmarya, and Jewish Whistleblower) -- I'm making this dare
>because some people might think that you guys are just a
>bunch of sensationalists:

You've lost me. Since when have I advocated the hashkafa of Rabbi Shain?

If you read my comments on Protocols or Failed Messiah you would know that I have a disagreements with Shmarya over his use of treifut/kashrut arguments on this issue.

My point here is that a major figure in the kashrut world in resigning in so public a way is shocking.

Rabbi Shain resignation letter and what it impugns is without a doubt shocking.

 
At 8:45 AM, Blogger Dov W said...

There is nothing at all shocking about Yehuda Shain's resignation. Yehuda Shain says that he is fearless in speaking the truth. If he is genuine then he will surely appreciate my fearlessness too.

Yehuda Shain is a rabble rouser who will stop short at nothing in his crusades. I remember as clear as day when following a visit by Rabbi Avrohom Rubin to Empire, Yehuda Shain circulated a letter around Lakewood purportedly from Rabbi Rubin attacking the kashrus at Empire. How embarassing when Rabbi Rubin himself issued a denial that he was the author of the letter. Did Yehuda Shain fearlessly insist that the letter was genuine? No, he skipped town for a week until he felt that he felt that he had safely rode out the storm...

I do not claim to know whether Yehuda Shain is malicious or just misguided and I do not say that he never has a point but I know with certainty that he is totally unreliable and he has often manipulated the truth to suit the purposes of his campaigns. Is he leshem shomayim? If he is then he is even more dangerous...

In the Rubashkin case he has repeatedly attacked Rabbi Weissmandel with a tenuous and unproven mix of speculation and conjecture and it has finally come home to bite him. He is not resigning out of protest he knows that after all his bomb throwing he no longer has a job.

 
At 10:10 AM, Blogger Shmarya said...

Rabbi Shain left this comment on FailedMessiah.com:

"Let's set the record straight.

Rabbi Rubin did not issue a report on EMPIRE!

Rabbi Rubin was brought in to observe the GALIL Schechita certified by Rabbi Moshe Heinemann / Star-K, after I challenged Rabbi Heineman that his Galil Schechita is suseptible to neveilos & treifos.

Rabbi Rubin's original report concluded that the GALIL schechita had a high incidence of Neveilos going out of the plant being certified as kasher by the Star-K.

Rabbi Rubin received from Rabbi Moshe Heineman a fax of a FORGED copy of his report with numerous changes and forgeries.

To that Rabbi Rubin wrote that the report is a forgery.

When the Star-K was caught, they ran to make their GALIL Schechita at EMPIRE.

Galil ultimately closed shop.

I did not leave town to run from anything or anyone.

Why did you have to keep all of this false information to yourself? you could have contacted me to learn the truth,Unless you have no interest in the truth 'cause it hurts.

My reputation over the years has been "to speak the truth" not of being a liar.

I challenge anyone to tell me "how many times over the last 20 years that I was wrong on a kashrus issue".

I guess "Timtum-Halev" has really taken hold of you, I'm sorry to hear.

Yudel Shain"

 
At 11:16 AM, Blogger Dov W said...

Since we both claim to be interested in the truth this should be very easy.

Let's first sift out the fact from the rhetoric by an analysis of where we agree and where we disagree and then I believe we can get agreement on how to establish the truth.

1) Fact. Rabbi Rubin visited a poultry shechita under Rabbi Heinemann's hashgocho.
You seem to be saying that it was a Galil plant not co-located with Empire that only later moved to Empire. I say that while you are correct that it was Galil it was always co-located at an Empire plant.

2) Fact. You circulated a report in Lakewood that seemed to be Rabbi Rubin's report on the Galil shechita.
Here we are in total agreement.

3) Fact. Rabbi Rubin issued a public and written denial of a report that he said was issued in his name. This denial was posted in the Lakewood Yeshiva.
You say that you had circulated the original report and not a forgery but that Rabbi Heinemann faxed Rabbi Rubin an altered copy of the genuine report and claimed that you had been circulating the altered version. I say that if this is true then you ought to have gone back to Rabbi Rubin proved your version of events and have him publicly retract his earlier statement. As we both know he never retracted his statement.

3) Fact. After the publication of Rabbi Rubin's statement you were not in Lakewood. The oilem said that you left because you could not face the music.
You say that you left town for other reasons. I say that if you are right about your involvement in the Rubin report then even if, contrary to your assertion, you really left Lakewood because you couldn't stand the heat I'll fully retract what I said about your involvement in the Rubin report but if you are wrong about your involvement then it won't help you even if you can prove that you left town for other reasons.

In other words the key question in the affair of the Rubin affair is did you or did you not circulate an accurate version of the Rubin report. I am convinced that you circulated a forged report and that it's public knowledge that you did and that there was nothing to check with you because the facts are as clear as day. However, if as you contend you are right and I am wrong it should be relatively easy for you to prove. I challenge you for the sake of truth to go ahead and prove it.

Even more important is the issue of how reliable your judgement is on kashrus issues. I am not saying that you are an am ho'oretz. I am saying that you don't know how to accurately assess a situation and how to accurately represent it.

I am so convinced that this is the case that I challenge you to email me the name and contact information of even one widely respected Kashrus authority who believes that your characterizations are anything more than exaggeration and misrepresentation. If you can meet this challenge I will fully retract everything I have said about your reliability.

Lastly and not least I have nothing at all personally against you and I believe that if you were in my position you would be doing the same thing. I am absolutely convinced that I am right but, I am not G-d, and I can make mistakes. Take me at my word, I am ready to listen and I am ready to fully retract everything I have said. Ho'emes toir darkoh.

 
At 1:04 PM, Blogger Shmarya said...

Rabbi Shain left this comment on FailedMessiah.com in response to Dov Wachsman. (He doesn't seem to know about this blog, so I'm posting it here for him.)

"RE: Dov Wachman's response.
I don't know where your information originates from but it's not correct.

1- Galil Schechita was located in NY State and had absolutely nothing to do with EMPIRE.

2- Rabbi Rubin did NOT issue any public denial, and there couldn't habe been one posted in Lakewood Yeshiva.
The correct facts are as follows:
Rabbi Rubin wrote to Rabbi M. Genack (head of OU)"Tell Rabbi Heineman that I am very upset that certain individuals "diloi maali" are making forgeries of my reports & there are at least..."
and that was sent to Rabbi Genack privately.

3- Rabbi Heineman couldn't say that I was circulating a forged copy as # 1 Rabbi Heineman was the one sent the original forged copy to Rabbi Rubin with a pretext of can you Rabbi Rubin please water down your report as it is too strong against the Star-K. 2nd of all I didn't get the forged copy till a few months later, so I couldn't circulate it.

4- Rabbi Rubin said I can't write anymore about the correct and the forged version 'cause they (Star-K) will have another document to do as the please( forgeries).

5- I checked on the dates of Rabbi Rubin's report and as far as I can remember I was in Lakewood after Rabbi Rubin's report was written and did not leave town per se, perhaps for a 1-3 day Hashgocha trip which I commonly do.

You can call Rabbi Rubin at his office in Eretz Yisroel and make your own verifications 011-972-89-390-816.

Yehuda Shain"

 
At 1:56 PM, Blogger Dov W said...

In response to your numbered comments:

1) I will accept the burden of proof for my assertion that Galil was at the same plant as Empire. If I discover that I am wrong I will say so.

2) I remember seeing the letter posted publicly on the walls of the Yeshiva which is not contradicted in any way by your claim that it was initially a private letter. As you well know there are many ways that a private correspondence (for example the report itself) becomes public. I remember clearly that the understanding of those reading it at the time was that "inshi dlo maali" was referring to you.

3) I misunderstood you. I thought that you were saying that Rabbi Heinemann had blamed you for the forgery. You are really alleging, as you clarify, that Rabbi Heinemann cleverly and seemingly innocently sent Rabbi Rubin a forgery without blaming you directly in any way. Subsequently Rabbi Rubin condemned that forgery which made you look bad because everyone assumed that you were guilty of forgery. I agree with you that I should be able to verify this with Rabbi Rubin.

4) I should be able to verify this too with Rabbi Rubin.

5) As I said the greater issue than why or even whether you were absent is whether the report you circulated was genuine or forged. I was convinced that it was forged but you insist that it was genuine and you assert that I can verify that by discussing it with Rabbi Rubin.

In deference to your comments I will observe a time-out until I can verify what is true here. If I am wrong as I wrote earlier I will get back to wherever I have posted my comments and I will retract any and all inaccuracies.

 
At 8:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>My point here is that a major figure in the kashrut >>world in resigning in so public a way is shocking.

>>Rabbi Shain resignation letter and what it impugns is >>without a doubt shocking.

Why would this have any meaning to you if you apparently do not accept his opinion on anything other than Rubashkin's?

 
At 9:21 PM, Blogger jewishwhistleblower said...

>Why would this have any meaning to you if you
>apparently do not accept his opinion on anything
>other than Rubashkin's?

Where do you get the idea I follow his opinions on Rubashkin?

I think Failed Messiah is the blog you are looking for.

 
At 3:55 PM, Blogger Dov W said...

See the continuation of this thread on failedmessiah.com for the truthn about Yehuda Shain's "shocking" "resignation"

 
At 3:20 PM, Blogger yeshivaguy said...

Since when is Shain a major figure in kashrus? A major troublemaker is more like it.

 

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